Divorce Coaches Academy

Beyond the Battle: Why High Conflict Divorce Coaching is Missing the Mark

• Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak • Season 1 • Episode 159

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The divorce coaching industry harbors a dangerous trend that's causing unnecessary harm to families across the country. In this eye-opening episode, Debra and Tracy tackle the phenomenon of "high-conflict divorce coaching" – an approach that frames every challenging divorce as a battle requiring warfare tactics rather than resolution strategies.

We pull back the curtain on what legitimate professional divorce coaching actually is and contrast it with the predatory marketing of high-conflict approaches that capitalize on fear. These programs effectively encourage clients to spend more money on their divorce, complicate the process, extend timelines, and create lasting damage – all while promising to help them "win" against their ex.

Through real-life examples, we reveal the staggering financial and emotional costs of choosing the high-conflict route. One client spent $80,000 on legal fees and was two years into her divorce without even reaching a temporary agreement – not because of complex assets or genuine safety concerns, but because both parties had adopted a battle mindset. We discuss how this approach operates on flawed assumptions: that you can change your spouse's behavior, that every difficult divorce involves a personality-disordered individual, and that being in constant "defense mode" is necessary.

As an alternative, we outline what to look for in a divorce coach or training program: someone focused on resolution rather than winning, who emphasizes communication strategies, emotional regulation, and clear decision-making. The truth is that the outcomes are typically the same whether you take the high-conflict route or a more measured approach – the only difference is you haven't spent years in litigation or hundreds of thousands of dollars unnecessarily.

Whether you're navigating divorce yourself, supporting someone who is, or considering becoming a divorce coach, this conversation provides crucial guidance for making choices that truly serve your long-term goals and your well being.

Divorce often brings emotional chaos—and as attorneys, mediators, financial advisors, divorce coaches, and dispute resolution professionals, you're tasked with guiding clients through it.

Join us for a practical and engaging LinkedIn Learning webinar:
“From Chaos to Clarity: Strategies for Work with High Emotional Clients in Divorce" 

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Email: DCA@divorcecoachesacademy.com

Debra:

Hey, welcome back or welcome to the Divorce Coaches Academy podcast.

Tracy:

Either if you're a returning listener or a new listener.

Debra:

Or a new one, yeah, and if you're new, I'm Debra and I'm here with my friend and colleague Tracy, who last week called me her favorite partner.

Tracy:

You are my only partner. It's like with kids, right? Do you ever say that You're my favorite daughter? You're my favorite son. Well, you're my only daughter, my only son.

Debra:

Exactly, exactly, all right. So we're glad you're here and today we're going to be diving into something that's been bothering both of us professionally for quite a while now, and we're actually going to talk about it because it's it's kind of the elephant in the room in the divorce coaching industry. We've been discussing it privately with colleagues for months and it's it's time to address it publicly because it's having real consequences for people going through divorce as well as those looking to get proper training as a divorce coach.

Tracy:

Yep, yep, yep, and please be prepared because we're going to get down and dirty today and get real about this trend that we're seeing of high conflict divorce coaches that are showing up everywhere. And please, just so we can be clear and not to offend any of our listeners, this episode isn't about throwing shade at specific individuals or training programs. It is about examining an approach that we believe is actually actually harmful to the very people it claims to help.

Debra:

Yes yes. And, as always, right. We want you to remember conflict is loud, collaboration is quiet, so we're seeing so much on social media these days. We want to acknowledge that there are situations involving genuine abuse, interpersonal violence, relational problems, control, safety concerns that require specialized intervention and we have no intent in this episode in minimizing those cases.

Tracy:

Exactly Right. Those cases exist and require proper support. But what we're discussing today is the broader trend of framing every challenging divorce as high conflict, which then requires battle tactics rather than resolution strategies. So we talk about this all the time. All divorce involves some level of conflict. That is why you're here - unresolved conflict. If there wasn't conflict, more than likely, whether internal or external, you wouldn't be moving forward with a divorce process.

Debra:

Now, before we get into the high conflict coaching phenomenon, let's just set a little context. So, Tracy, we've talked before about the preoccupation with the term narcissist in our divorce work. Yeah,

Tracy:

Yep, everybody's a n arc.

Debra:

Yep and our colleague Andrea Hips made this brilliant comment at an American Bar Association event recently. She said she hasn't gone to work if she hasn't had someone tell her they're divorcing a narcissist. And when she said this in the room she got a big laugh in response. But it was not a funny ha-ha laugh okay.

Tracy:

Not a funny, ha-ha.

Debra:

No, it was that uncomfortable laugh of collective frustration, because we all recognize how much this label is getting in the way of clients navigating their divorces effectively. And so, honestly, seeing this trend continue to evolve is driving us a little crazy.

Tracy:

Oh, yep. And if you haven't heard our episode 96, the Trap of Narcissism, I really recommend going back and listening. But the quick version is that we've seen an explosion of content focusing on divorcing a narcissist. Everyone on that ABA call - attorneys, mediators, coaches - all resonated with Andrea's comments because we see the fallout from this and now we are seeing the natural evolution of this. Not just content about narcissists, but people actively selling high-conflict divorce coach training programs. More than a little crazy. It is the absolute antithesis of what professional divorce coaching is and should be.

Debra:

Yes. So let's talk a little bit first about what legitimate professional divorce coaching actually is, for those listeners who might not be familiar. So, Tracy, can you talk us through some of the principles that professional divorce coaches are committed to?

Tracy:

Oh, yeah, Yep, we are committed to principled negotiation, dispute resolution and minimizing damage to families. We help clients make clear, headed decisions during emotional times, understanding the divorce process and to be able to develop effective communication strategies. Divorce coaching is recognized by the American Bar Association as a form of dispute resolution, dispute resolution. We are legitimately defined as a group of professionals that work to help parties resolve their differences outside of the court system to minimize conflict. And at DCA we are working hard to establish and raise standards of practice in the industry. But these high conflict programs are essentially marketplaces for fear. I say this all the time. It is capitalizing, capitalizing...

Debra:

It's predatory.

Tracy:

It is, on fear. For what, Debra? Because I'm going to say...

Debra:

To make a buck.

Tracy:

To contribute to the billion dollar divorce industry. And I don't know about you, but I am not in bed with the billion-dollar divorce industry, I'm just not, yeah.

Debra:

And just to pull some numbers out $13.2 billion in the divorce legal kind of realm - that was the revenue in 2024, $13.2 billion, right. So we, as professional divorce divorce coaches, are committed to not throwing fuel on the fire of already escalating situations. We are not divorce warriors or battle coaches, right?

Tracy:

Nope, we are not.

Debra:

Divorce. You said this - divorce involves conflict. Every single one of them is, but the fact is many people haven't learned to engage in that conflict productively, so any disagreement or friction to them is going to feel like a battle, right? So we are really committed to this idea that conflict is inevitable but combat is optional. Just because your spouse or co-parent has a different opinion or point of view doesn't mean they're the enemy.

Tracy:

It is one of the first questions I ask when I engage with potential clients in a consult call and one of the first things they'll say, similar to Andrea, right in our day of work, is somebody will say I am in a high conflict divorce. And my first question is is help me understand why? What makes your divorce high conflict? And do you know what the answer is almost every single time Debra?

Debra:

Because he or she won't agree to my terms

Tracy:

Exactly.

Debra:

And that's what I mean about it. It doesn't make someone the enemy when they disagree with you. We just haven't been taught how to do it.

Tracy:

We just are not taught and if you guys know me or listen to me, I talk all about this that we do not teach children or adults how to effectively and efficiently engage in conflict. And just because somebody disagrees with you, right, doesn't mean that you're at war. It can mean that you're in an opportunity to learn more about what is important for that person and make decisions about how to meet your needs or their needs, or mutual needs, for a mutual shared agreement, Okay, so. So let's talk about what these programs actually sell and we're talking about these quote unquote high conflict divorce coach training programs, because what I've observed is they're essentially selling the concept of winning against your ex. Okay, so these are not only training programs.

Debra:

We're not on video, but if you could see my face, I'm laughing hysterically at this concept of winning.

Tracy:

Right, this winning right, everybody's winning right.

Tracy:

So we're talking about these training programs that train high conflict divorce coaches, and we're also talking about high-conflict divorce coaches who sell high-conflict divorce coaching. They're selling this idea of winning against your ex. And, yes, here is the uncomfortable truth. There is no way to win in the traditional sense. No, there are absolutely, though, ways ways to negotiate well, communicate effectively, set good boundaries la, la, la, right.

Tracy:

I saw a program recently that was literally using war metaphors in all of their marketing: battlefield tactics, winning the divorce war - things like that and I think we need to call it what it is. Again it's predatory marketing. We are capitalizing on the fear of other people going through a, yes, very stressful time. It's filled with emotion, it's filled with conflict, it's filled with fear and uncertainty, and it is the perfect storm, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be war. Because what do we say about war? I mean, I just can't stand war. You know, I want to start singing the song - War. What is it good for. Okay? I won't do that, but what is for it to be war? In a war situation, what are two things that have to be true when you're at war?

Debra:

Hmm, we didn't pre-plan this, so let me think about my answers. I have to have an enemy, yeah, and I have to think I'm right.

Tracy:

Yes, so so there has to be somebody you're fighting against and there has to be this idea of winning and losing. Because we're at war, somebody... There has to be a winner and for somebody to win, there has to be a loser.

Debra:

ou're, and the truth is, in divorce there really is, I hate to be the one to say it, there is no way to win against someone who is determined to create chaos. The very framing is problematic and it's so harmful. The idea that I can take a chaotic individual and have any control over their behavior is silly.

Debra:

And so what these programs effectively do is take advantage of clients' greatest fears during one of the most vulnerable time of their lives. So let's actually let's get down to it and talk about what they're really selling. They're selling you a program or a product that's going to help you or your clients spend more money on your divorce. It's going to complicate your divorce, it's going to make it take longer and it's going to create more damage, and that's exactly what happens. These approaches rely on confirmation bias - the idea that all divorce has to be a fight, that you need to be prepared for war. And if and if that's my confirmation, and I'm only surrounded by people who have that same opinion right. One of the most telling examples of this problem is how these programs frame every interaction. They operate on this assumption that you should always be in defense mode, always be preparing for attack.

Tracy:

Preparing for attack. And when you put it that way, it absolutely sounds absurd. Pay me money to help you spend more money on your divorce. I'm going to say that again. Pay me money to help you spend more money on your divorce. And once you adopt that mindset guess what? Confirmation bias. You are going to find evidence to support it everywhere you look. I love this right. Have you ever heard this quote by Abraham Maslow? If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." So if the team you've chosen sees everything as a fight, then you'll get an expensive, drawn-out divorce battle with the idea that you are going to win. It absolutely reminds me of DEFCON levels from the military right. So, Deb, you're very familiar with DEFCON. I know you spoke about this in your book, but you want to explain the analogy here?

Debra:

Yeah, because I think it is so perfect. So DEFCON stands for Defense Readiness Condition. It is the alert system used by the US military. Like, what status are we in? It has five levels, from DEFCON 5, which is normal peacetime operations. That's the lowest, that's where we normally operate. It goes all the way up to DEFCON 1, which is basically imminent nuclear war.

Tracy:

Nuclear war, DEFCON 1.

Debra:

Yeah, what these folks are saying is your divorce is a potential war zone. You need to operate at heightened alert all times. That's exhausting. It's usually completely unnecessary. What these high conflict approaches are essentially telling clients is start your divorce at what? DEFCON 2? DEFCON 1? Always on full alert, always ready for combat. Not to mention and I'm going to say this three or four times, it often creates the very conflict it claims to be responding to.

Tracy:

I love that, yes.

Debra:

This is creating the conflict that it says... t hat's that you're paying for, like to reduce it. That was not a complete, full sentence, but it's creating more conflict because we're starting off at DEFCON 1. The actual, the tag name for that is cocked pistol. So you're starting your divorce with your gun loaded, pointing at your spouse's face.

Debra:

It's not going to go well.

Tracy:

Yeah, we talk a lot about this with clients that we're preparing to make the acknowledgement of a divorce. There is an absolute difference in the entire experience, versus when somebody is prepared and has really been intentional about how they're going to go about this, versus somebody just hiring an attorney, filing for divorce or petitioning the court for divorce and then having their spouse served.

Debra:

Right DEFCON 1.

Tracy:

Right Cocked pistol.

Tracy:

There you go, right off the bat and people don't understand that they one, they have options and two, really looking at that in a perspective, in a greater perspective. We love to use ... I'm going to use a little William Ury language here ... going into the balcony. Because if you went to the balcony and saw about what a petitioning and divorces and having somebody served, whether they're walking out of work or at work or whatever. I had a client who, she did this prior to working with me, but she was in such a high conflict divorce, she actually served her spouse as he was walking out of rehab. He went to rehab because there was acknowledgement that there was issues. While he was in rehab, she decided this wasn't going to work. But what do you think is going to happen here? Right, right, game on.

Debra:

Game on. Okay, so let's talk about outcomes.

Tracy:

Yeah. So because we both worked with clients who have previously bought into this high conflict approach, we've seen the aftermath. I saw the aftermath, I was working with this lovely client after the aftermath of serving her spouse walking out of rehab. We see a failure to take responsibility for their own roles in escalating conflict. What was my part in this? Okay, skyrocketing legal fees and dramatically extended timelines to resolution are the direct outcomes.

Debra:

They are.

Tracy:

They are. I have worked with a client recently who's been following one of these high conflict coaches for months before finding our practice. She spent nearly $80,000 on legal fees already, was two years into her divorce, and they hadn't even reached a temporary agreement. Common, no, no, it was essentially a standard divorce, nothing too complex, that had spiraled because both parties had adopted a battle mindset. She was so focused on not letting him win that she lost sight of what actually mattered to her. And when we started working together, one of the first things we did was look at what that $80,000 could have been used for instead. Because this wasn't a financially lucrative situation right? College funds, a down payment on a new home, therapy for the kids who were struggling with the ongoing conflict? Right. So the client was spending money to engage in making things more difficult and creating more conflict.

Debra:

Yes, yeah,

Tracy:

Yes, time and money.

Debra:

Because she didn't want to let him win. And so what's one of the most expensive phrases in divorce? There are two. One is "I only want what's fair, because fair is the four letter F word. Nobody's going to agree on what's fair. And the second is it's the principle.

Tracy:

Yep, it's just the principle.

Debra:

It's just the principle, Okay.

Debra:

Principle is going to cost you six figures just so you know.

Debra:

Okay, here's what we see. We see the outcomes are consistently negative. We see people with completely unrealistic expectations of what's possible in a divorce, with excessive reliance on the courts to solve what are essentially communication problems and conflict management problems. And, most importantly, we see significant damage to kids in these scenarios.

Tracy:

Yeah, innocent victims.

Debra:

Yeah, and was there a clear reason why? No, I mean, you just talked about that client. They didn't have complex assets, she didn't have genuine safety concerns, and it's heartbreaking but unfortunately not uncommon. And those two years of her life spent in litigation, that's time she will never get back.

Debra:

Her nervous system will have trouble resetting after an experience like that, and that's the real cost of this high conflict approach.

Tracy:

Yeah, yeah. So what do these programs often get wrong? Well, let's break it down point by point. Okay, they encourage clients to try to change their spouse, ex or co-parent, which is literally impossible. Why? Well, because we can't control anybody else, right? We can only control or change our response to somebody. This is why we talk a lot about conflict.

Tracy:

There are parties to conflict, and there's a conflict situation. But it only takes one party to change the dynamics of conflict. One party. It doesn't take both, it only takes one, right, okay. And perhaps most fundamentally, they operate on the assumption that every difficult divorce involves a personality disordered individual. When the reality is is that divorce is hard for everyone and it brings out difficult behavior in most people. When someone feels threatened, whether financially, in their relationship with their children or in their own identity, they rarely, rarely show up as their best self. Shocker, and labeling every difficult divorce as high conflict requiring battle tactics, misses the opportunity to find opportunities to de-escalate and look at solutions, workable solutions, that may meet all parties' needs. I know it can be done.

Debra:

Yeah, yeah. So there's this focus on being right, or the principle, or winning instead of solving problems, which is where the focus should be. And anybody here who's ever been in a long-term relationship knows that being right rarely solves anything.

Tracy:

What are you talking about?

Debra:

No, the other thing is this whole experience of going to battle and stuff and dragging it out and creating financial and relational damage. It's going to delay their recovery post-divorce because they're keeping them stuck in conflict mode rather than helping them move forward. And I'm really glad you mentioned that last point because the truth is, most people behave badly during divorce at some point. It's an emotional process that triggers our deepest insecurities. When emotion is high, intelligence is low. I've been there. I mean, we've all been there.

Debra:

Yes, we all behave badly. That doesn't mean their spouse has a personality disorder. It means they're human, going through a difficult transition and their amygdala is running the show.

Tracy:

Yeah, so what's the alternative? What should people look for in a divorce coach? Okay, well, we know this really well.

Debra:

Or a divorce coach training program.

Tracy:

Or a divorce coach training program. Someone who acknowledges that, yes, divorce is hard and your ex might behave badly at times, but focuses on what you can control in the situation. They help you build skills that will serve you not just during the divorce but in co-parenting and future relationships and all instances where conflict exists. I think it's also important to mention that a good divorce coach knows when to refer out. Sometimes clients do need specialized legal advice, therapy or other support. So if you're looking for divorce support, be wary. Please be wary of anyone selling you battle tactics or promising to help you win against a high-conflict ex or a narcissist.

Debra:

Right. So we're talking to both consumers here, potential clients, as well as people that are considering a profession as divorce coaching. As a divorce coach, that didn't make sense. Must be early. So what we want you to look for, either in a program or in a coach, is someone who talks about resolution rather than winning. Somebody who emphasizes communication strategies, emotional regulation, clear decision making. A good coach or a good training program is going to train you to be this kind of coach. We're going to help clients clarify priorities, educate them about the divorce process and make decisions that align with their long-term goals and values. And, most importantly, they don't promise to defeat the ex. They promise to help navigate this process with as much dignity and clarity as possible. A legitimate coach operates as part of a professional network and knows the limits of their expertise. We want you to look for professionals committed to helping you move through this with the least damage possible: to your finances, to your children and to your own well-being.

Tracy:

Yeah, Least damage possible. Not an escalation, a de-escalation. Okay, and before we wrap up, let's just talk about some more important aspect of this - the financial impact of choosing the high conflict route versus working towards resolution. And the numbers are staggering again, and a lot of you have heard these, but we're just going to quickly remind you a high conflict divorce can easily cost $50,000 to $100,000 or more in legal fees alone. So let's ask the question: what could that $100,000 be used for instead of a custody battle? Financial security for both households, a fresh start in a new home? And what about those two or three years spent in litigation? What could that time have been used for? Healing and rebuilding? Career advancement?

Tracy:

When you frame it this way, the cost of the high conflict approach becomes much clearer. Even in genuinely difficult situations with challenging ex-partners, and there are a lot of challenging ex-partners, escalating conflict rarely, rarely, leads to better outcomes. It really, really honestly, it's not about letting someone get away with anything. It's about making strategic choices that serve your long-term wellbeing and that of your children. Informed, intentional decision-making.

Debra:

And that even doesn't include the opportunity cost of this time spent in litigation, the emotional energy that's drained from conflict, and the impacts on that client's career and ability to parent. I mean it could be college education for the kids, therapy and support for the whole family. Right, yeah, we could use that time for something else - being available to be a focused, present parent during this crucial transition for your kids. When you're embroiled in a conflict, in a battle...

Tracy:

You are not parenting.

Debra:

You are not parenting. You're not doing it well, you're not going to move on so that you could have a new relationship and have new experiences, and that's really what we want listeners to take away from today's episode. There is almost always a better way than high conflict approaches to divorce. We have seen it time and time again. Trust me, Tracy and I have been doing this. This is not our first rodeo. We've been doing this for a long time. We have watched a lot of people. We have helped a lot of people walk back from

Tracy:

Walk it back yeah.

Debra:

$200,000 in litigation. We're able to get them in mediation and get an agreement. Clients who fare best are those who find ways to disengage from the conflict and focus on what is within their control.

Tracy:

Yeah, themselves All right.

Tracy:

Well, we've covered a lot of ground today and we absolutely hope this has been helpful for our listeners who might be navigating divorce or supporting somebody who is, and if you are just beginning this journey, we hope this episode helps you choose support that truly serves your long-term wellbeing.

Tracy:

Additionally, if you are somebody who is looking at becoming a divorce coach, we really, really, really encourage you to look at programs that are suited and grounded in dispute resolution... and just a small heads up, there aren't any others right now currently other than Divorce Coaches Academy, and that's not just to toot our own horn, but that's really to just recognize there is a huge need out there and to be consistent with how divorce coaching is supposed to play out in this role.

Tracy:

If you're currently working with a divorce coach who emphasizes battle tactics and winning against your ex, we really encourage you to take a step back, go to the balcony and consider whether that approach aligns with your true priorities and values. And, as always, we want to thank you for listening to our podcast. If you found this valuable, please share it with somebody who might benefit. Until then, remember that how you divorce matters as much as why you divorced. Okay, it's a lot about getting to that decision is really important. Choosing a process that aligns with an outcome that's best for you and your children is even more important.

Debra:

It's more important, and if I can underscore one thing we talked about this before we hit record, because we see so many of these cases and that is, the outcomes are typically the same whether you take the high conflict route or whether you take the more measured route.

Debra:

The outcomes are very similar. The only difference is you haven't spent years in litigation and you haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to help your attorney's kid go to college.

Tracy:

All right, thanks everyone, until next time.