Divorce Coaches Academy
Divorce Coaches Academy podcast hosts Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak are on a mission to revolutionize the way families navigate divorce. We discuss topics to help professional divorce coaches succeed with clients and meet their business goals and we advocate (loudly sometimes) for the critical role certified divorce coaches play in the alternative dispute resolution process. Our goal is to create a community of divorce coaching professionals committed to reducing the financial and emotional impact of divorce on families.
Divorce Coaches Academy
When Good People Behave Badly: The Perfect Storm of Divorce
Send Us a Message (include your contact info if you'd like a reply)
Divorce has a reputation for bringing out surprising behaviors in otherwise composed, reasonable people. Even the most patient parent might find themselves sending aggressive texts at 2 AM. The kindest spouse might suddenly become fixated on revenge. The most logical professional might make financially devastating decisions based purely on emotion.
Why does this happen? In this episode, we explore the psychological underpinnings of why good people often behave badly during divorce. We unpack the popular saying that "criminal courts see bad people on their best day, while divorce courts see good people on their worst day" - a profound truth that helps us understand the perfect storm of emotional, practical, and identity challenges divorce creates.
When someone faces the end of their marriage, they're not just untangling a relationship - they're grieving the life they expected to have. This grief, combined with practical pressures like custody arrangements and financial concerns, pushes many into survival mode. And when we're in survival mode, our capacity for rational thinking diminishes dramatically.
As divorce coaches, we've developed specific approaches for working with clients caught in reactive emotional states. We share practical techniques for creating judgment-free spaces where clients can explore what's really happening beneath their anger, fear, or revenge fantasies. Through powerful questions that invite self-awareness, we help clients align their behavior with their true values and long-term goals.
Whether you're a helping professional working with divorcing clients or someone navigating your own divorce journey, this conversation offers compassionate insights into the emotional complexity of ending a marriage. Remember, reacting emotionally doesn't make someone a bad person - it makes them human. With the right support, these challenging moments can become opportunities for profound growth and self-discovery.
Divorce often brings emotional chaos—and as attorneys, mediators, financial advisors, divorce coaches, and dispute resolution professionals, you're tasked with guiding clients through it.
Join us for a practical and engaging LinkedIn Learning webinar:
“From Chaos to Clarity: Strategies for Work with High Emotional Clients in Divorce"
Learn more about DCA® or any of the classes or events mentioned in this episode at the links below:
Website: www.divorcecoachesacademy.com
Instagram: @divorcecoachesacademy
LinkedIn: divorce-coaches-academy
Email: DCA@divorcecoachesacademy.com
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Divorce Coaches Academy podcast. I am Tracy and I am here with my favorite co-host, Debra. Hey Debra.
Debra:Hi, there, I'm excited.
Tracy:Yeah, we are really glad you're tuning in today because we are covering a topic that every divorce coach - whether you are new to the field or a seasoned practitioner - encounters on a pretty regular basis, and it's this: why good people often behave badly during divorce.
Tracy:Good people behaving badly.
Debra:It happens. All, all right.
Debra:ll we're glad you're here and you know, tracy, Tracy topic came up for us because we were we were talking about reminiscing about a quote and I think most of you have probably heard it. But let's review. And it is the criminal courts see bad people on their best day and divorce courts see good people on their worst day. It is so true, so true and it sticks with us. Yeah, because it is so spot on.
Debra:When somebody shows up to criminal court. They get a haircut, they get a shave, they get a new suit. They're on their best behavior. They're not swearing or throwing signs or-.
Tracy:Yeah, they're cleaning it up, Cleaning it all up.
Debra:And yet divorce is the exact opposite. Somebody that normally is a pretty stellar citizen just loses their shit.
Tracy:Yeah, loses it, loses it.
Debra:So it's because divorce doesn't just challenge this couple legally or financially. This is what we're going to talk about today. It tests them emotionally, spiritually, mentally. Even the most loving, generous, grounded people (myself) can say or do things during a divorce that seem totally out of character.
Tracy:Yes, it is so true. And it is important for us as divorce coaches to normalize this for ourselves and for our clients, because when people are moving through the breakdown of a marriage, they are not just untangling a relationship, they are often grieving a version of their life that they thought they'd have right. Nobody goes and gets married and plans for divorce. They just don't right. When you do that till death, do us part kind of sorry nonsense, right? People truly believe they're walking down this path of marriage, believing that this is their life for the rest of their life. Right, so that grief combined with fear, anger, betrayal or shame can push people into survival mode. And when we are in survival mode, we are not, we are just not, operating from our most self-actualized, best self place. We are typically reactive, defensive and yes, yes, sometimes even aggressive.
Debra:Yeah, aggressive, absolutely. And let's be real, for most of our clients, they are experiencing this kind of stress, all these different kinds of things at once, for the very first time. They're dealing with the emotional upheaval. But guess what? In divorce, it's wrapped up in logistics: custody, finances, housing. Where are they going to live? How are they going to blah, blah, blah. And so there's this constant pressure to perform or make decisions while they are in an incredible amount of emotional distress, and it's that mismatch that creates all kinds of opportunities for behavior that seem irrational or even hostile.
Tracy:It's a perfect storm, right?
Debra:It really is, and so we're talking today about the fact that it's so important we, as professionals, don't rush to label these clients as difficult or toxic just because they're acting out of fear. We need to pause and ask ourselves what's underneath this reaction, what's the unmet need, what's the unspoken fear, what's the emotional wound here that's being touched?
Tracy:Yeah, what's the conflict? Right? Often starting as an internal conflict. So it is so understandable, right, we talk a lot about conflict is inevitable in divorce. But combat is optional. Right, and unfortunately, when we're not able to really explore those things, that conflict presents itself externally. That internal conflict right. So it's really an important perspective. We both have seen clients who say things like I just want to destroy them (him, her) or I hope they suffer. And it is easy to feel alarmed by those statements. But when we slow things down and give them a safe space, our clients, a safe space to explore what's really going on, we often uncover some really, really, really, really deep pain. They may feel abandoned. Maybe they are absolutely terrified of losing their kids or financial security. These are primal fears, right Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and they are showing up as anger or control-seeking behavior.
Tracy:Hence good people, right?
Debra:Good people behaving badly. So let's talk about what we do in those moments.
Tracy:Yeah, there's things we do.
Debra:There are. However, let's start off with this - it is not our job to collude with a client's pain and help them anchor deeper in that. It is our role to create a space where that pain can be explored with compassion.
Tracy:Yeah, this is the ability to acknowledge without jumping in bed with it.
Debra:Exactly exactly. So I might say something to a client like "I'm really hearing how angry you are. Can we look at what's behind that anger? What's going on with that? That's the kind of exploration that opens the door to transformation. It's where people can start connecting their behaviors with some deeper emotional truths, which is really what's going on with this conflict. When they do that, when they'll be able to notice that and start putting it together, they might be able to acknowledge "h, I'm lashing out because I feel powerless, or I avoid communication because I feel ashamed. That's when they start to gain emotional agency and where they can start making different choices.
Tracy:Honestly, it is that awareness is everything. We've talked about this before. Do you remember when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the 2022 Oscars?
Debra:Oh yeah, yeah, I remember.
Tracy:I mean, the world was watching, right. And that's what can happen when someone acts without taking a beat, a breath, a pause to check in with what's going on or how they are feeling. There's a saying when emotion is high, oh oh that intelligence is so low, right. And then it's filled with a lot of regret and repair.
Debra:And unintended consequences right?
Tracy:I mean look at, look at, look at poor I am going to say poor Will Smith, because we all have been there. I really I'm sorry.
Debra:We have. We have all, we have all been there, we all. It was such a public display of this topic we're talking about and he had some severe consequences. I think he was banned for 10 years. But his brain, when it's feeling attacked or threatened, can't register that right. But again, this was such a... i t was a great lesson for all of us on how those big emotions can cause somebody to act out of character or behave in a way that doesn't serve them in literally an instant.
Tracy:Yeah, it is such a powerful shift and it's also where coaching really shines, right? We are not therapists, we are not here to dig into their childhood traumas, but we are certainly emotional educators in many ways. We know we are conflict educators and we know that emotions play a huge role. Right, those feelings that are impacting our thinking, which is creating behavior. We can help clients expand their emotional vocabulary. Yeah, name those feelings, build awareness of their emotional triggers and, more importantly, help them identify what values they want to lead with, even in the hardest moments. Right, it is this, really, it's again this combination of these feelings that are impacting our thinking which leads to behavior. So, so, the first part of that right, we talk a lot about in emotional intelligence is to be able to one identify that. That's that naming piece, right, to then be able to manage it. And that management starts with that awareness of what is it that's that threat to me. Those are the emotional triggers. It's not just that somebody keeps rolling their eyes at me. It's often that I feel completely disrespected when you're ... right? So there is a thinking happening, right, based on those feelings.
Tracy:Sometimes I will ask "what kind of co-parent do you want to be remembered as Such a great question? Or, when you look back on this divorce five years from now, what do you hope you'll be proud of? These are future forward thinking questions, and these questions can help anchor them in those long-term goals, instead of getting swept up in these short-term emotional storms. Right, we did talk about this. Perfect, the perfect storm, these are storms, right? So this ability to identify how I'm feeling, how I'm thinking, and then how it's impacting my behavior, and then what am I wanting to achieve? What do I want this to look like? How do I want to show up as a co-parent? What do I want my kids to remember about this experience? Those are those desired outcomes, those long-term goals that can help us seek clarity again on our identification of those feelings and thinking patterns.
Debra:Right, right. And let's be honest, we have all, I know you and I both, we've had clients say or do things that feel really hard to sit with.
Tracy:Mm-hmm yeah.
Debra:Right, some really hard stuff. And you know, they might admit to manipulating their co-parent. Or maybe they're using their children as messengers. Maybe they're sabotaging the divorce process intentionally.
Tracy:Yeah, burn it to the ground. Right
Debra:Right, intentionally doing those things. And it's hard for us to witness. But here's the thing - it's not our job to scold or or shame. Our role is - our two favorite words - talking about our role curious and neutral. So my work with a client might sound like this, "help me understand what you were hoping to accomplish by doing that, or what impact do you think that had on your kids or your future co-parenting relationship. And we're just going to sit, no judgment.
Tracy:No judgment. Judgment free.
Debra:It's exploration, because what we often find is nobody else in their life is asking those questions without judgment. They're either jumping on the train with them, "eah, go do it or it's just pure judgment and shame, and neither of those approaches is helpful in getting our client to the place they want to go.
Tracy:Not helpful at all, it is so true. And those conversations again can be transformative. I've had clients tearfully admit I don't like the person I've become in this divorce, and that becomes a pivotal moment for their own healing. But it only happens because someone (us) we're willing to sit with them in that discomfort without turning away. And you know, as coaches we had to manage our own reactions too right.
Tracy:If you've listened to me or been trained by me, you'll often hear about me talking about cow face, right. So it's easy to feel triggered or frustrated when clients seem stuck in blame or revenge, and this is where supervision, peer support or self-reflection becomes essential. We can't model emotional regulation for our clients if we are not practicing it ourselves, right. So this is why I talk about case consultation all the time and reflective practice.
Tracy:If you are a certified professional practicing divorce coach and you are seeing clients day in and day out and helping clients with these huge, huge issues, concerns, fears, threats, behavior and you're doing it without the support of clinical supervision or a community to help keep you grounded and continuing to grow in your practice, you're doing something wrong. You are, I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it, you are Okay, so please, I really encourage you to check out our case consultation group. It is a forum of reflective practice where coaches come and talk about cases, present cases and we brain think together right, so please check it out. Case consultation go to divorcecoachesacademycom. We meet twice a month.
Debra:Yeah, professional development. And let me just throw this out I know there are a lot of case consultation groups out there that cost a couple hundred dollars a month, $3,000 a year. Ours is $49 a month and you get to participate in two 90-minute sessions. So, okay, super affordable, super affordable. So let's go back to this idea that divorce coaching, for us as the professional, can be really heavy. It's heavy work. We hear hard stories, we deal with heartbreaking situations. So being a part of a community of supportive professionals is essential to showing up well for our clients.
Debra:It is. Okay, so let's shift gears and let's talk about the practical ways we can help when a client is in that really reactive state. Maybe they're venting, maybe they're fixated on revenge. What are some tools we can offer in the moment?
Tracy:Mm-hmm.
Debra:One of my go-tos is normalizing. Let's just normalize they're feeling that way. You say something like this is one of the hardest things you'll ever go through. It's completely human to feel overwhelmed and out of control right now. And that simple validation can disarm, disarm the defensiveness, help them feel a little bit more seen right. And then another tool is just to use reflection. We talk about reflection a lot in our divorce coach training. Say like, when you said you felt betrayed, it sounded like there's maybe a little more under the surface. Can you tell me more about that? It's just going to slow them down and create that space for self-awareness to emerge.
Tracy:Yeah, Opportunity for discovery right. So those are such effective strategies. I also love using somatic cues right, helping clients notice where they feel tension in their bodies. Something like "hat's happening in your shoulders right now. Can you place a hand on your chest and just take a breath with me? It is subtle, but it brings them back to the present and helps ground them right. And we're not somatic practitioners most of us, unless you are trained separately in somatic practitioning but there are tools that we can use. One more technique I use is asking for alignment, right. "s this response helping or hurting the outcome you want? Right? It's just asking them is the behavior aligning with what they want to accomplish? This gentle accountability can help shift them from reacting emotionally to responding intentionally.
Debra:Yeah, yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, really one of the most healing things we can offer our clients is a new narrative, an ability to write that story differently. Divorce is not a moral failure on either party's part, and reacting emotionally doesn't make someone a horrible person or a narcissist or a sociopath or a personality disordered person. Right, it means you're human and you're reacting to stress. These are hard moments, but they're also opportunities for growth. We're helping clients see they're not stuck in the story of who they were during the divorce. We're focusing on the future. We're writing a new chapter and they get to decide now what kind of person, what kind of parent, what kind of partner they become next.
Tracy:Yes, yes, yes, yes. And as coaches, we're not here to fix anyone. We are here to walk beside them, to hold a steady light when everything else feels chaotic. And sometimes just knowing they're not being judged is enough to help a client step into their best self, even on the worst day, creating opportunities for self-discovery and identifying their desired outcome so they can create changes, and how they show up to align with where they want to be.
Debra:Yeah, yeah. So, look, if you're a coach working with a client who's really deep in fear, rage, grief, whatever that is, remember you're not seeing a bad person, you're seeing someone in pain and your presence calm, compassionate and grounded might be the most healing force in the room or the most healing presence they've been around for weeks.
Tracy:That's right. Keep holding space, keep staying curious and keep believing in the goodness that exists, even when it is buried under layers of hurt and pain. Divorce coaching is a practice of patience, perspective and purpose.
Debra:Love it, love it, love it, all right. So criminal court sees bad people and I'm using air quotes there on their best day, and divorce court sees good people on their worst day. And we need to keep that in mind.
Debra:So, thanks so much for hanging out with us today. We hope you'll continue to join us as we talk through some of these issues that really can create problems when families are trying to divorce. We're trying to make it less stressful for them. And we want to leave you with this... Please remember every client deserves grace.
Tracy:One of my favorite words grace.
Debra:Grace. Especially when they're at their worst. All right, we'll see you next time.